Fall News - 20 September 1999

The Fall play London Dingwalls on 20 October. There'll probably be a Manchester date around this date.

Apparently, cdnow lists a us release of the marshall suite on october 12. Glow Boys will be released in October.


14 sept Doornroosje Nijmegen


Just got back from Nijmegen. Didn't think I would be back in Amsterdam tonight, thought I wouldn't be able to catch the last train, but I was. The Fall played quite short, about an hour in all. They were pretty good though, I thought. The start (after a long, weird intro tape) was excellent, with Jetboy - sounds like a Fall song. One irritating thing was loud high-pitched feedback for most of the gig, which the sound man (not The Fall's own sound man, or woman I should say?) didn't seem to mind. Best were This Perfect Day, much, much better than on the album (I understood the choice for covering this for the first time), Shake-off, On My Own (really great) and Kill Your Sons, which was great - improvised lyrics about how the band got to the gig as well. MES' only walkout was at the end of Touch Sensitive, then 10 Houses of Eve started with Nev singing. They stopped after about 40 minutes, an instrumental He Pep was blasting through the speakers, did two songs, off again, instrumental Free Range over the speakers, then last encore.

I think the crowd was a bit disappointed - the gig a bit on the short side, hardly any old songs... The place was pretty much packed, to my surprise, about 300 people. Someone from the club said there were a lot of single reservations, instead of the usual group (2 or more persons) reservations. Someone who'd last seen them play in May said it was a bit 'tame' tonight.

Set list:

Touch Sensitive
10 Houses Of Eve
This Perfect Day
F-Oldin' Money
On My Own
Kill Your Sons
Old Gang
And Therein


From: "Martin Kremers"


Outside temperature 28C. Carspeed 120 KMH. Distance 160 KM. Heartbeat 160xMIN. Direction Nijmegen. Expectation high.

Perfect prospect after a hard day workin' at the mill. Arrival at 18.45. Parkin' and sippin' Red Bull, smokin' L&M's, listenin' Love. Yes.....the mighty Arthur Lee's Love, "For ever changes", "Da Capo", and their first, unsurpassed, "Love", release. Maybe there's a nice cover to play there.

It was almost 18 years ago I met The Fall first time live at the same location. I remember MES sniffin' amphetamines and they had no drummer at this occasion.(period between Mike Leigh and Paul Hanley?) During the performance Mark thought the bongo-player how to play a song, verry humiliated.

Met MES outside the Doornroosje because I was early, we had a nice chat, he was suprisingly accessible, went on a photo together.

There was no supporting-act and the kick-off was at 21.50 h. Finally they went off at 22.45 h. I ripped the setlist from Neville:

Intro 10 th century music Jet boy Bound Anecdotes in B# Touch (sensitve) IO Houses Perfect day Foldin (F-'oldin' money cd-version) Birthday (Birthday song) Shake off Madmen ( Mad-men-eng.dog) On my own Ketamine song (?) Antidotes 'Ol gang And the encore: And therein.

Neville broke his E-string in the seccond song and there was no roady who could repair it during the whole set. They sounded fresh, but always The Fall,never an interaction between the audience and band, MES moved the microphones and pushed the effect-switches even Julia rather puts a finger in her left ear than trim the guitar amplifier.

15 sept Paradiso Amsterdam


Support played till 9:15 then a LONG wait for the about 7-800 crowd

Fall (complete! incl. Julia) emerge at 10:25. Smith in grey slacks, jacket and white poloshirt. Good neat haircut.


white noise introtape
Touch Sensitive
Shake Off (about one minute long)
The Joke
He PEP (instrumental, MES with fag and beer in hand watching the audience and uttering one sentence when the song ended)
On My Own
F'Olding Money
Jetboy (MES karaoke with mic audience participation. a bit of fiddling with the knobs on amps)
Perfect Day
10 Houses of Eve (MES walk-off for most of the song, sung by Nev)

MES beckons band offstage

Kill Your Sons

again band leaves stage

Ol' Gang

Julia starts Masqueraderemix from keyboard and that was about it at close to 11:15....

First impressions: Smith looked OK, better than expected anyway, just "distant" most of the time but quite focussed on a number of songs. Nev and Adam seemingly having a good time on stage, the band played excellent throughout I thought. The first half a dozen songs set the tone for a great gig but after that the mood went downhill with the walk-offs and fiddling and all that. All encores (no antics there) were excellent. Biggest letdown was the shortness of it all, leaving the audience with some booing and pretty bemused. Why not play a few songs more and let the crowd go home happy? It's unforgivable to play no more than 50 minutes, considering it's an Amsterdam gig in front of a lot of old fans and maybe a lot of press. When in the cloakroom, a (surprised looking) couple who saw my t-shirt and took me for a fan (..uh...yes?) , asked me if this short set was the usual stuff and had to admit that in shame. Oh well, not as bad as I expected but the shortness of it all was a real letdown. I guess the rest of the tour won't be any different alas. 6/10



Good report from Arjan. Musically the gig was better than Nijmegen, albeit about 15 minutes shorter. The band was tighter. Neville told me afterwards that he wanted the songs shorter, not dragging on too long.  Adam said he'd wanted to play a longer gig, but Smith didn't. I thought Kill Your Sons in particular was brilliant again, good to hear The Joke as well.

When I heard Mark say, in one of the first songs: '... the shortest set you'll ever get', I knew this wasn't going to be a long one.



what Smith got away with last night (got away with is the operative phrase, I think) was bloody criminal. I've a good mind to write to that Ann Robinson on TV's Watchdog consumer rights program. Maybe they could sneak her into a Fall gig with concealed camera, stopwatch etc.

There were a couple of funny moments. Just as the music of Touch Sensitive ended, Smith did a classic slurred rant about - something like - "your father stays at home playing guitar in a Simple Minds reunion.." and the one line of He PEP was amusing in its sudden stopness.

Smith didn't look too bad - after all the UK gig reports we were expecting Yoda - but he looked OK, just - as Arjan said - a bit distant. Nice slacks, good neat haircut, like a man from the gas board, I thought.

Jetboy was the best song for me - and/or On My Own, which was great.


From: "Maurice Leahy"

It seemed like an hour before The Fall came onstage after support band Ozark Henri departed. The Fall roadie would appear every 20 minutes or so and just set up one guitar and then leave (some compensation was the music played during the interval which was really good). A couple of minutes of loud white noise/feedback greeted the bands arrival on stage and then it was straight into 'Touch Sensitive' with Nev as energetic (for a Fall guitarist) as ever, giving it loads of half turns etc. Mark was in good form, looked smart (and dare I say it younger). Second up was 'Bound' which was nice and lively (but had to cringe at Julia's dismal keyboards). A fantastic version of 'The Joke' soon followed, and bar 'Kill Your Sons', 'Ten Houses of Eve', 'He Pep!' and 'Ol' Gang', (and maybe one more??) it was all 'The Marshall Suite'.

He Pep! was purely an instrumental with Nev doing the backing vocals (as Mark scanned/observed the crowd). And then again it was solely Nev shouting on 'Ten Houses of Eve'. Mark kept turning up the amps and turning off Nev's when he least seemed to expect it which was funny. On 'Kill Your Sons' Nev kept creasing up as Mark improvised on the vocals. I couldn't make out a word. He also interrupted Tom "..hey! Tom… Tom..speed it up.. speed it up" Mark dropped the mic at the front of the stage and then handing it to the audience encouraged them to say something etc. He got "good evening we are The Fall" in Dutch accent which creased him up' and then he goaded them to say "Mark Smith.. go on..say Mark Smith" .

It was a good gig. Very funny in spots. There were about 500 there.


Subject: <fallnet> [Fwd: The Fall, gisteravond, Paradiso]

Posted on nl.muziek-newsgroup

Gillet wrote:
> Het is niet bepaald een goed teken wanneer kwart over tien de roadie
> een paar gitaren op het podium komt slepen en ze begint in te pluggen
> terwijl de band eigenlijk al om halftien had moeten beginnen. Maar
> goed, dit is The Fall dus a) dat was te verwachten en b) het maakt
> niet veel uit dat die dingen niet nauwkeurig gestemd en ingelijnd
> zijn. We hadden met z'n alleen sinds het voorprogramma - de donkere,
> zware, beetje gothic, triphop van Ozark Henri - al dik een uur naar
> de spleet in de gordijnen achter op het podium staan turen wachtend
> op een glimp van de voor het eerst in naar het schijnt 7 jaar weer
> voor optredens met The Fall in het land zijnde Mark E Smith. Dan ma-
> ken die laatste paar minuten ook niet meer uit en even voor half-11
> begint het met, waarom ook niet, een minutenlange 'drone', alsof je
> met je kop onder een versleten electrische grasmaaier ligt; de band
> komt op (geen idee wie het zijn, elke paar maanden krijgt MES ruzie
> met z'n bandleden en flikkert ze de band uit; de keyboardiste/gita-
> riste daar rechts op het podium zou trouwens best wel eens z'n ex-
> vrouw Brix(sp?) kunnen zijn, maar don't quote me on that), de dat-
> machine begint dansbeats te spuien, de gitarist zet de riff van de
> vorige single Touch Sensitive in en The Fall is de beste band te
> wereld.
> De band klinkt eigenlijk al twintig jaar hetzelfde. The Fall
> is garagepunkrock'n'roll op z'n elementairst maar vervolgens heeft
> iemand er een trap tegen aangegeven zodat alles nu een beetje schots
> en scheef staat. De laatste jaren zijn er hier en daar wat dansrit-
> mes bijgekomen, maar op een of andere manier maakt dat weinig uit
> voor het geluid. Belangrijkste schakel in de band is natuurlijk de
> Mighty MES. Hij zit er, in z'n foute, blauwe broek, Zeeman-polo en
> niet-iets-anders-blauw vest, uit als een tegen z'n pensioen aanhik-
> kende geschiedenisleraar. Hij klinkt als een *dronken* geschiedenis-
> leraar. Z'n zeurderige, dreinende zanglijnen klinken eigenlijk in
> elk nummer hetzelfde, onverstaanbaar op de steevast op het eind van
> elke zin te horen '-uh' na. Hij gedraagt zich als een verwend kind:
> bewondert uitgebreid de architectuur van het Paradiso-podium en knoeit
> onophoudelijk met de versterkers van z'n gitarist en bassist. Het is
> verschrikkelijk moeilijk voor te stellen waarom hij in hemelsnaam in
> een band zit, hij lijkt absoluut niet geinteresseerd in publiek en/of
> mede-bandleden, maar dat hoort er nu eenmaal bij en het is allemaal
> fantastisch. Ze spelen voor zo'n 40 minuten, inclusief twee, romme-
> lige (maar dat geldt eigenlijk voor het hele concert), toegiften.
> Voor een band die al zo lang bestaat legden ze volgens mij erg de
> nadruk op hun recentere werk. Ik heb de ouwe lullen (30+) waar het
> publiek voor het overgrote deel van het publiek uit bestond tenmin-
> ste nergens een oeh-dat-is-een-klassieker-uit-het-verleden reactie
> horen of zien geven en herkende zelf (alleen bekend met de laatste
> paar Fall albums) bijvoorbeeld The Joke, Antidote en F-Oldin Money
> naast het al genoemde Touch Sensitive. Toen het om ongeveer kwart
> over 11 dan toch echt allemaal afgelopen was, klaagden twee gozers
> achter me dat ze hun geld terug wilden omdat het zo kort was en zo
> chaotisch. Die hebben er dus niet van begrepen...
> groeten
> Joris Gillet


The above describes rather well the reactions of the people that I took along though! Klaas said "I didn't understand a word-not A word, not 'a', not 'the', nothing!" and concluded that it wasn't his cup of tea. Vivien was actually driven out by the noise after about 2 numbers and has been quite ill ever since. Willem is more tolerant but declared it "a lousy evening", though smiling in a "at least it was an experience" sort of a way.

For myself I've been undecided ever since. Musically it was quite tight, refreshing lack of on-stage nonsense, the encores were great and it certainly was loud. I'd also had a few drinks and had a good bounce up and down at the front, always helps. But this is the first time I saw the "new Fall" and I can't say it was great. Not the worst I've seen, some nice moments, but didn't inspire me to go to every other Netherlands gig.


From: "michael louwinger"

After a few days thinking about the gig that it was great but too short for me. Had the change to see Mark from very close by. As a few years ago someone said to me: "The Fall is great, they will never die". That's how i feel.

16 sept Vera Groningen


Wow, The Fall were fantastic last night in Groningen, at the Vera. Much better than the previous two gigs.

Set list - didn't write it down myself, this is what it says on the set lists of Tom and the sound man:

(10th Century - intro) Shake Off This Perfect Day Jet Boy He Pep Bound Touch Sensitive 10 Houses Anecdotes The Joke Madmen F'Oldin' Money Antidotes

On My Own (Anecdotes) (Birthday) Ol' Gang Ketamine Suns

And Therein New Big Prinz

10 Houses (half)

Last three weren't on the set list, decided on the spot probably. The ones betweeen brackets I can't remember: don't think they played Birthday (though they might have, I just don't remember), nor Anecdotes twice. Ketamine Suns is what I thought was called Kill Your Sons, It's a great song, amazing each time I heard it.

The thing about this gig was that Mark was as much into it as the band, which made all the difference from Amsterdam and Nijmegen. They played for about an hour and ten minutes. Great response from the audience, who demanded several encores and got them too. New Big Prinz was simply great, at least as good as the old band played it, maybe better. Mark even adjusted the mic stand for Nev that he'd been fucking around with just before, so Nev could do the backing vocals. He must have been in a really good mood.

Great atmosphere, band working themselves into a sweat, Adam and Nev having the time of their lives, Mark focused and ferocious. After Nijmegen and Amsterdam I wasn't sure if the 2 hour train trip to Groningen would be worth it, but I'm glad I went. The band started about twenty minutes late, I had expected them to go on later, missed the first couple of songs because I got in late.

I heard they trashed the dressing room - glass everywhere, t-shirts hung on lamps, holes in the walls..

Everybody was happy except the cleaning woman.


From: Andreas_Dobbert

Groningen, Vera, 16.09.99

65 minutes I wouldn't want to miss! After all those reported desasters and soap stories that made the Fall-News since I have seen the Fall the last time six years ago during their Infotainment tour I expected having to witness little more than the current state of decline. Even more, I think that many tracks on The Marshall Suite are rather weak and for the first time felt like being ripped-off after spending unf-olded money on the last two CD singles. So while enjoying the little trip from Hamburg to Groningen (by the way: nice, small venue this 'Vera', very friendly people, ticket reservations via e-mail taken seriously and even answered) I also feared to shake-off what I very much enjoyed over many years but also became more and more annoyed / confused with lately. First sight of MES was when he crossed the hall shortly after Julia for the backstage area next to the stage. Hope grew. Not that it necersarily had to mean anything but maybe he would remember: you are abroad! About half an hour later the show began. Except for MES who looked like a cross between German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer and one of those aliens the way the X-Files imagine them I haven't seen any of these folks that serve the current Fall before. And from the first tone on they sounded overwhelmingly fresh and new. Although they all seemed like being on a vacation, relaxed, enjoying themselves (mind you, not too much), even smiling at times, everyone acted sharp, focused, concentrated and determined. Short songs, like mentioned on these here pages before. Great voice. Great sound also. Fine fine music. Everything very very tight and absolutely gripping. The Fall have definitely stopped improvising. Accompanied by an equaly stunned Fall-Virgin I felt like one myself. This was very different and still very much the same. MES still being the master of flexing cheekbone muscles. Half a week later it still feels like touching a high tension line. Although it was probably worth it I just hope I won't have to wait another six years.

17 sept O13 Tilburg

From: "Martin Kremers" Eijgelshoven18-09

Went to see MES and Fall for the second time this week, me and my wife. She was amused, we met MES in a pub in the center of Tilburg, by that time he's already drunk. Is it the strong Dutch beer or the cheap drugs that made 'm pissed at this time a day? The place was crowded, met this guy from Germany, he drove 350 kms, like us, to see the band. During the first song MES fell backwards in the monitors and hit the keyboard down. Julia played some tones at her knees. MES recovered and 10 houses, F'olding and The Saints cover Perfect Day was money worth. After that Nev broke once again 2 of 5 strings. Tom went off, together with the band. MES for a minute alone on stage. During that time the dat-tape ran into 2 other songs. Nev came up and sung "Hey pep"? The concert took 35 minutes.

MES I want my money back, don't dare to say "get a job" anymore.


P.S. Where's the next gig??



Saw the Fall yesterday. After an hour waiting they finally started playing. Mark looked terrible. After the irst song he fell upon the ground, takin the keyboards with him. In the fourth song the guitar didn't work, and after the sixth song everybody walked off the stage. Backtstage the bands was very agressive and started throwing things against the wall. Apparently Mark had to be led to his dressing-room, were he threw everyone out. Is he like that every night? It is a bit pathetic, isn't it?



18 sept V.K. Brussel

19 sept L.V.C. Leiden


Total shambles...

Inside at around 9:30 me, Al and Sietse said hi to Nev which was walking from the stage to the front. To catch the late ferry as it soon turned out..

Band appears to start on time (10 am), a bad sign if there ever was one. Julia is the first one to appear for a solo-version of HE PEP with some synths on top. Adam and Tom appear to begin This Perfect Day. Still no MES and what's more no Nev! The Joke kicks in when MES turns up, the line up of tonight complete. Smith keeps fiddling with stagelights, amps, mixing table etc. the whole set through. We gathered he sang about five songs during the set, disappearing for a number of minutes resulting in a totally instrumental version of F-Olding Money, Julia doing basic guitar. Julia went to get him eventually from the dressing room. Smith kicking against Nev's guitar which was still on stage one time. During another one he kept mucking about with Julia's keyboards after which Julia, after giving MES a shove, walked off for a while. Set ended at 10:35 leaving the reasonable crowd (250+) pretty pissed off and bemused, a number of foreign fans too undoubtedly too.



Not too much to add to Arjan's report. A disappointing gig, although I'm not as bitter as Arjan and Al are - at least I saw one brilliant gig on this tour (Groningen), plus a couple of okay ones.

So, Nev either left or was sacked. Must have happened just before the gig, because the people who'd organised the tour didn't know about it, and his stuff was on stage (guitar and pedals). Smith kicked them off at one point. Some comments towards Nev in improvised lyrics tonight, I presume. In Birthday Smith said something about someone smoking pot all day instead of doing their job. Then again this may not have been about Nev at all, but about the Dutch, who as we know smoke pot all day. He went on about a 'fucking canal' and South Africa (I think) as well, things linked to Holland. And, in Birthday as well, 'as I walk down 17th century buildings, skint as always..'

The exact quote from 10 Houses... (after 'If only the shards would relocate..'):
"If only you would get your shit together, instead of taking pot all day, and fucking do your job."

The thing was, most of it didn't even sound too bad, because of the great bass sound and good drums mostly. Adam and Tom played fine, Julia as well (until she got angry at Smith and walked off). Smith actually sang on 7 and a half songs - which was pretty good. But an instrumental version of F-Oldin' Money is simply pointless, and I did miss Nev's guitar in most of the songs. Smith's behaviour was odd to say the least, pathetic to say the worst. He was too close for comfort to Al and me, we both more or less expected him to go into the audience and attack someone. Al said he heard him mention people in Fall t-shirts as well, after which Al tried to hide his (hideous) yellow Fall t-shirt by buttoning up his shirt.

Set list:

He Pep (just Julia) This Perfect Day (instrumental) Anecdotes The Joke Touch Sensitive F-Oldin' Money (instrumental) 10 Houses Of Eve Shake-off Birthday Antidotes Ol' Gang (second half instrumental)

no encores (nobody asked for one either).

This one won't have done The Fall's reputation in Holland any good.



just to reiterate what Arjan and Sietse have already documented, it was an appalling shambles - although the Tilburg one sounds like it could have been even worse.

Smith started fiddling with stuff the instant he came on (one song late). It was semi-funny - the first thing he did (comedy moment# 1) was bend over (back to us) to do up his shoelace. Later, he hid behind the bass speaker like a small child playing hide 'n' seek. Then a purple spotlight seemed to irritate him intensely and he began climbing on stuff to adjust it. He seemed to be distracted and irritated by the tiniest things, and was swearing constantly at the sound crew, gesticulating for them to fuck off, etc. I tell you, you don't get this at a Cliff Richard gig.

Comedy moment#2 - Smith disappears behind some equipment on the other side of the stage, carries on singing, then there's a thudding sound followed by silence...

OK - there was a comedy in it, but it was uncomfortable comedy. The closest comparable experience I've had was being in a train carriage with an aggressive drunk. As Sietse said, we were too close for comfort - too much eye contact, and wondering what Smith's going to do next. I kept thinking I was irritating him just by being there - maybe because I wear glasses and look like a Guardian reader, I don't know.


MES at the end of Shake-off: 'You let the bearded man into your home, please tell me why! Shake-off!'
Someone from the audience: 'Piss off!'
MES: 'Piss off you too. Hello, next song!'

At the very end of the gig, someone said into the microphone: 'Mark E. Smith is a cunt!'
(Probably someone from the audience as well, I couldn't tell from the sound of it.)


Many thanks to Sietse Meijer, for his piece from NRC Handelsblad, Cultureel Supplement Sept. 10, and also for the interview transcript with MES below:

Het moet onverstaanbaar

Mark E. Smith en zijn 22-jarige band The Fall

Voor het eerst in zeven jaar treedt de Engelse popgroep The Fall volgende week weer op in Nederland. Het is de 27e bezetting van de groep, die in de 22 jaar van haar bestaan als enige constante de bewonderde en gevreesde zanger Mark E. Smith heeft gehad. Smith's doel is onveranderd: het maken van prikkelende muziek met intelligente teksten, waar de luisteraar moeite voor moet doen. ,,Het ontcijferen is een deel van de lol.''

door Sietse Meijer

Ik Heb Altijd Gelijk. Het is de titel van een boek van W.F. Hermans, voor mij is het ook de fictieve ondertitel van elke plaat van de Engelse popgroep The Fall. Het geweten van de Britse pop wordt de band wel eens genoemd; ze wordt algemeen beschouwd als één van de belangrijkste en meest invloedrijke Britse popgroepen van de afgelopen decennia. Een lange lijst groepen, waaronder Sonic Youth, Pavement en Elastica, noemde The Fall als grote invloed. Volgende week speelt The Fall voor het eerst in zeven jaar weer in Nederland, ter gelegenheid van de nieuwe cd The Marshall Suite.

Dat album wekte in en buiten Engeland nieuwe belangstelling voor de band, die in de jaren tachtig wereldwijd een aardige cult-aanhang had. Ook in Nederland, waar The Fall regelmatig optrad. In eigen land had de groep in die tijd een paar Top 40-hits. In de jaren negentig verkleinde de aanhang zich tot een harde kern van fans die de nieuwe cd's trouw bleven kopen.

Wie het over The Fall heeft, heeft het over zanger Mark E. Smith, sinds de oprichting in 1977 de leider, en inmiddels de enige van de oorspronkelijke bezetting die na 22 jaar nog steeds deel uitmaakt van de uit Manchester afkomstige groep. Een fan heeft uitgerekend dat er 27 verschillende bezettingen van The Fall zijn geweest. Tientallen muzikanten hebben deel uitgemaakt van de groep, waaronder ex-vriendinnen en ex-echtgenotes van Smith. Sommige bandleden zijn zelf vertrokken, de meeste werden door Smith ontslagen en vervangen. Hij vergeleek de groep eens met een legerpeloton: ,,Als de voorste drie worden neergeschoten staan erachter drie andere klaar.''

Smith heeft de reputatie een lastig mens te zijn, een grillige persoonlijkheid die het ene moment vriendelijk en het volgende moment onverschillig of onaardig is. Eigenwijs, intelligent, volgens velen briljant zelfs - het popblad NME riep hem vorig jaar uit tot 'Godlike Genius'. Bij het in ontvangst nemen van de onderscheiding zei Smith dat de prijs naar de NME-lezers zou moeten gaan die het voor elkaar krijgen het blad van voor naar achteren te lezen. Een journalist van het jongensblad Loaded schreef dat een agressieve Smith hem tijdens een interview een sigaret in het gezicht wilde uitdrukken. Als ik hem spreek is hij heel vriendelijk, net als bij eerdere gelegenheden. ,,Mensen zijn bang voor ons, dat is wel vreemd'', zegt hij. ,,Vorige week speelden we op een festival. Backstage kwam niemand bij ons in de buurt. De nieuwe leden in de band komen uit een andere hoek, uit country- en dance-muziek. Voor hen is het een nieuwe wereld. Ze dachten dat ze als popsterren behandeld zouden worden, als Blur of zo, maar ze worden behandeld als melaatsen!'' Hij lacht uitbundig.

De laatste jaren leek het slecht te gaan met The Fall, al bleven de cd's de moeite waard. Smith ging er door overmatig alcoholgebruik telkens ongezonder uitzien, bij optredens waren duidelijk ergernissen te merken tussen hem en de andere bandleden. Zo nu en dan stond hij dronken op het podium, één keer moest hij er vanaf worden gedragen omdat hij niet meer tot lopen in staat was. Bezoekers die erover berichtten op Internet waren gedesillusioneerd en zagen het einde van The Fall naderen, maar even later verscheen weer nieuw werk dat toch weer de moeite waard was. Sommigen haakten af, de meesten bleven toch fan. Begin vorig jaar bereikte de crisis in de band zijn dieptepunt. Aan het eind van een korte Amerikaanse tournee gingen de bandleden tijdens een optreden in New York met Smith in gevecht; de zanger zelf werd nog gearresteerd omdat hij zijn vriendin en Fall-toetseniste Julia Nagle letsel toegebracht zou hebben. Ook ditmaal was het echter niet voorbij.

Mark E. Smith vormde een volledig nieuwe band - met uit de oude band alleen Nagle weer op toetsen - en verbaasde zijn aanhang met een verrassend goed nieuw album, The Marshall Suite, het 26e (al zijn het er heel wat meer als je alle compilaties en live-albums meerekent). ,,Ik was niet gelukkig met het geluid van de oude band'', zegt Smith nu. ,,Ik luisterde als iemand in het publiek, en ik vond het niet goed. Er slopen clichématige rock-elementen in. Dat zie je vaak gebeuren bij oude groepen.'' Ondanks de nieuwe band klinkt The Marshall Suite typisch als The Fall. Het album verenigt veel van de stijlen in zich die The Fall door de jaren heen gespeeld heeft, zoals jaren vijftig-achtige rock & roll, krachtige melodieuze pop, en, waar The Fall het best in is: opzwepende nummers met simpele maar sterke ritmes, die nog versterkt worden door de stuwende bas en venijnige gitaar. En de stem van Smith, die vaak niet zozeer zingt maar dingen roept, snel als een rapper, met de overtuigingskracht en de dwingende klank van een legercommandant, een dominee of een leraar die geen tegenspraak duldt. Er zit veel zelfvertrouwen in zijn stem, dat neigt naar arrogantie, de arrogantie van iemand die weet dat hij gelijk heeft, en dat dat vanzelf spreekt. Sommigen horen er sarcasme in. Smith gebruikt zijn stem als instrument, waarmee hij opvallende geluiden kan maken, zoals het stotteren in 'you j-j-j-just can't stand it, c-c-c-cannot stand it' (in Bound). Het meest geparodieerde kenmerk van zijn zang is de toevoeging 'uh' aan het eind van een zin, om wat hij zegt kracht bij te zetten: 'Too much chocolate dip-uh!'

In sommige Fall-nummers is de tekst redelijk te volgen; er wordt een gebeurtenis beschreven, een personage aan het woord gelaten of commentaar geleverd op een maatschappelijke trend. 'Kicker Conspiracy' (1983) ging over voetbalvandalisme, 'Free Range' ('92) over de explosieve toestand in midden-Europa, 'The Joke' ('95) over politieke correctheid die sommige grappen niet meer toestaat: 'Five years in a PC camp!'

Andere nummers gaan over een personage, zoals 'Paranoia Man In Cheap Sh*t Room' (1993), dat het beeld oproept van een blanke man van midden dertig die zelden de deur uitgaat en iedereen wantrouwt. 'His neighbours now are listening to this', zegt Smith ironisch (hij is zo paranoïde dat hij denkt dat zijn buren hem voortdurend in de gaten houden en zelfs dit liedje over hem beluisteren). En passant wijst Smith op de neiging naar nostalgie die hij ziet bij dertigers, die het liefst de jaren zeventig of tachtig laten herleven.

Smith trekt het in het belachelijke: 'Not as good as it was at 2.30, this afternoon.' Meestal zijn de teksten cryptisch, voor velerlei uitleg vatbaar, of niet goed te verstaan, met woorden die Smith oppikt uit geschiedenisboeken of science fiction, televisie, kranten, vaktaal, idiomen, slang. Intrigerende of grappige zinnetjes springen er vaak uit, zoals: 'There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste' (uit The Classical, '82) of 'They say, What about the meek? I say they've got a bloody cheek!' (Touch Sensitive, '99).

De klank is minstens zo belangrijk als de betekenis: de woorden moeten de luisteraar prikkelen. Smith zegt zich te ergeren aan muziek waarin de teksten woord voor woord te verstaan zijn: dat haalt het mysterie weg. ,,Het ontcijferen is een deel van de lol.'' Mensen moeten raden naar de betekenis, vindt hij. Bovendien gaat het niet om de specifieke betekenis. ,,Ik probeer meer een gemoedstoestand over te brengen.''

De muziek van The Fall is bijna altijd opwekkend, als een drug die je adrenaline in gang zet. Na 22 jaar is de muziek van de groep nog steeds niet suf of saai of gezapig geworden, zoals bij veel van zijn generatiegenoten wel gebeurd is. The Marshall Suite klinkt even vitaal als de albums die The Fall tien of vijftien jaar geleden maakte. Smith's gedrevenheid is nog altijd groot, al was het maar omdat er zo weinig goede muziek wordt gemaakt: als The Fall het niet doet, doet niemand het. ,,Ik hoor niet veel dingen die ik opwindend vind. De mogelijkheden van gitaren en drums worden nauwelijks benut. Ik hoor nooit een goede drummer op de radio. Het klinkt allemaal zo gelijkmatig, er is weinig dat eruit springt en je overvalt. Ik vind dat muziek je de oren moet doen spitsen.''

Smith ergert zich aan mensen die zich met zijn muziek bemoeien, die denken te weten hoe het hoort. ,,Ze hebben een boek over rockmuziek gelezen en een paar tv-programma's over pop gezien en gaan je dan vertellen hoe het moet. Toen technici in studio's nog niet zo veel wisten kon je veel meer je gang gaan.'' The Fall heeft vanaf het begin gebroken met heersende regels in de popmuziek. Zo klonken hun eerste platen met opzet rammelend, zo erg dat de geluidstechnici niet op de hoes vermeld wilden worden, omdat ze niet met de plaat geassocieerd wilden worden. Producer John Leckie, die enkele albums met The Fall opnam, vertelde onlangs dat de instrumenten van de band nooit goed gestemd waren. ,,Als ik ze de gitaren liet stemmen, klonk het een stuk minder goed.'' De eigenzinnige, eigenwijze houding van Smith en zijn veelgelaagde, intelligente en intrigerende teksten wekken bij fans van The Fall obsessief gedrag op: er zijn aan The Fall gewijde websites op Internet waarop gepoogd is alle teksten op te schrijven, en waarop wordt nagegaan waaraan Smith precies refereert als hij het heeft over 'Balti, Vimto and Spangles', of '2000 dead Thai monk in SS uniform'.

Enthousiaste berichten op Internet over recente optredens in Engeland stemmen hoopvol voor de Nederlandse tournee, volgende week. Al houden Nederlandse fans hun hart vast, met de verhalen in het achterhoofd over optredens die de mist in gingen door Smith's dronkenschap. Die verhalen zijn overtrokken, zegt Mark E. Smith zelf. ,,Ik hou van drinken, dat zal ik niet ontkennen. Maar vaak denken mensen dat je dronken of aan de drugs bent als ze je niet begrijpen. Als ik uitval tegen de band verklaren ze dat op die manier, terwijl ik soms gewoon uit mijn humeur ben. Het grappige is dat veel mensen in de showbusiness net doen of ze een alcohol- of drugsverslaving hebben gehad, omdat het veel publiciteit oplevert - terwijl je gewoon weet dat ze nooit meer dan een paar glazen bier hebben gehad. Toen die verhalen over mij in de media kwamen, belde mijn PR-man mij op: 'Hoe heb je dat voor elkaar gekregen? Het kost mij een kwart miljoen om zo'n verhaal in de bladen te krijgen!'''

The Fall: The Marshall Suite. Artful/PIAS ARTFULCD17. The Fall speelt 14/9 in Doornroosje, Nijmegen; 15/9 Paradiso, Amsterdam; 16/9 Vera, Groningen; 17/9 013, Tilburg; 18/9 VK, Brussel; 19/9 LVC, Leiden.


This is a fairly unedited transcript, which is why it might come across as less incoherent than the kind of Q and A interviews you are used to reading.

Mark was in good spirits, very friendly, dead funny, and laughing a lot. Very much like the last time I spoke to him really.

Bear in mind that my main objective was getting something useful for the article, which is meant to be read by people who might not know the first thing about The Fall. Most of the article is a description of The Fall's music, attitude, lyrics, reputation etc., with a couple of quotes from the interview.

anyway, hope you enjoy it,



* How are you doing?

I’m fine!

* It was really great to hear that you’re playing in Holland again soon.

Yeah, same here.

* How come it took so long?

I don’t know. The British agent had a bit of a war going on with the British agents and they were the ones contracting the Europeans, you know. So we decided to do it ourselves, really.

* I like the Marshall Suite a lot...

Oh good.

* It sounds almost like a starting band, there’s a bit of nervous tension in it.

Yeah. Well there certainly was! Ha ha ha! It started off with about three of us and then we got a group together about halfway through it, so..

* I was surprised it came so quickly, ‘cause the new band wasn’t there that long..

No, right, right.. It’s a blessin’ really, ‘cause the first tracks were recorded just with like, vocals and drums, you know, and guitar. If anything a lot of it is over produced, ha ha ha ha ha. That’s why I wanted to do it really quickly, you know. The more everybody thought how great it was, the more people tried to tamper with it.

* Do you let other people get involved with the sound a lot?

They were trying to, yeah. So that’s why I rushed it a bit. I had the concept in my head, you know, the three sides. That was from the offset really.

* Why did you want to do that?

‘Cause I’d always wanted to. And you couldn’t do it with the old group, you know. I wanted a straightforward side, a second side that was opening up and a third side that was like really off the wall.

* And the old band wasn’t into it?

Well, I didn’t tell them about that. You know, you got to use what happens around you if you know what I mean, if you’ve got the opportunities, use what’s going on rather than try and recreate an old Fall group, you know.. Do everything you wanted to do, really.

* When you started the new band, did you also pick the people in a way that you wanted it to be very different from the old one?

Ehm.. Not really. I know what drummin’ I want, you know. I’ve always known that. And Julia’s always okay on the keyboards, and... It was more the bass and guitars, I wanted to have a bit more, not more control over them, but make sure it doesn’t go into a rocky thing again. That’s sometimes what happens with old groups.

* Is that why the old band stopped?

Well, I think they left ‘cause they wanted to do their own stuff. Which is what you find, after two or three years.

* From the outside, from an outsider’s perspective it seemed like you almost forced them to leave as well, in a way, with things that happened. Was it like that at all?

It must’ve looked like that from an outside point of view, yeah. But for the first time in like a long time, the last three months, I was like, not happy with what I was hearin’, coming from the stage. And that only lasted about two or three months, so I think it’s for the best really. I mean if you don’t like it yourself, you know... ‘Cause I’m not really a musician, I look at it very much the way I’d see it if I walked into a hall. And I mean, you can only get away with that I think for about a month or two.

* Your approach to music has never been that of a typical musician as well, I think. Did you notice a difference with most of the people you’ve worked with, in that way?

Er, yeah, yeah... Most people I’ve worked with though, musicians, they appreciate that, that’s it not like, routine, you know. They usually sort of.. they like it, it’s refreshing.

* Can you explain what the way is you go about things, with music, how you look at it?

... Well, I... There’s always something there that’s not quite there, I think. So that’s why I keep doing it. It’s never quite right. There’s always people who wanna tamper with things, you know. Even with the best intentions.

* Is it also still a challenge to you, to make music?

Yeah. Because... You know, I still don’t hear much things that excite me that much, you know. I think music gets easier and easier and people think it’s easier and easier and they think, with technology it’s like dead easy and that, and.. In fact it gets harder and harder, it’s more of a challenge really. People think you don’t need groups, people think you can do everything on a machine, or, you know.. I think machines are good, I think guitars are good, I think drums are good, but.. The possibilities of ‘em haven’t been really, sort of eh.. approached yet, I think.

* In what way?

Well, you know... They’re all... Nobody’s got the guitar right yet, I think.. I never hear a good drummer on the radio, really. Very rarely.

* What is it about them that you don’t think is good?

It’s all very... It’s like medium range sound. Nothing hits you right in the face anymore. It never did anyway for me, but... (laughs) You know, I think things should like, prick your ears up a bit.

* You said it’s become harder. Why?

It’s supposed to become easier ain’t it, but.. Now for instance if you go into the studio, say, like the BBC or anything, instead of, you know like, where people didn’t know what you were doing, so you could get away with more. They didn’t understand it. Now people think, because they’ve got a big 24-channel computer desk, and because there’s a lot of programmes on TV now about rock music... I know it’s not quite the same in Holland ‘cause you’ve always had that, but... Like in Britain every third programma now is about rock music. It’s like, it’s almost like an engineering course now.

* We had Rockschool on TV here as well...

Yeah, did you..

* ... which was dreadful I thought.

Horrible ain’t it? It’s disgustin, isn’t it! (laughs) It’s like, why don’t these people get jobs!

* It was all these things like, you should do it like this... It was almost like a course of how not to do it I thought..

Yeah, right, yeah. So you get more and more of those people everywhere.. (laughs) You get people who watch them things, who are probably working in the art department of a record company who watch a couple of those things, or somebody in a press department, and they watch a couple of them things and think they know it all, you know. So they start telling you things. It’s quite amazing really. They don’t get away with it with me.

* Can you name an example?

Ha ha ha... You know, press officers and things like that. You must know it. It’s press officers just wanting to get your picture on the front of a cover or something, now they tell you how to play guitar. You know it’s like, wait a minute, how many records have you been on? ‘Er, none.’ Ha ha ha! ‘But I did know somebody who was on the Garbage record’, ha ha ha! ‘I did do the press on the Garbage record *and* I was reading this book about rock music..’ It’s like, muck fucker, just get me in the papers!

* You’ve always used your voice as an instrument...

Like to think so.

* A lot of the time the lyrics aren’t that easy to understand, but sometimes it doesn’t seem like that’s your intention either..


* ... ‘cause it’s more the sound of things as well.

Mm. I think that’s part of the fun, really. Deciphering.

* Do you think people should guess for the meanings?

I think so, yeah. I mean if I’ve got something to say I like to think it’s very clear, you know. You’re trying to communicate a brain state, really. I’m trying to communicate a state of mind, really, rather than... I suppose Rockschool would say: ‘You should make the verse very clear..’

* In the lyrics there seems to an interest in the way people talk as well. You seem to observe how things from manuals are written, idioms, stuff like that.. Is that right?


* What is it that interests you in things like that?

It’s like an abusive language, isn’t it, a lot of it. It’s like... It’s taken as sacro-sanct really. If you read... Some of the stuff on the Internet I think is incredible, you know, it’s just garbage, some of it.

* What kinds of things?

... These people on the Internet who think they’re superior to people who write, and yet what they’re writing is just abuse, really, just a waste of paper. It’s the same people who go on about waste of trees, but they’re writing ... They’re like, primeval really... D’you know The Fall’s got more Internet, sort of, channels on it than any group in the world? It’s like fifty. And if I tap into them, I mean if I read all of the stuff it would take all my time up. And you read it, it’s just like, I don’t even know what it’s about. A lot of it’s made up. And it’s not even good made up, you know.

* There’s a good sense of humour in it as well I think..

Oh yeah, most of ‘em, yeah.

* Have you read a lot of things on the Internet about yourself?

No, no, I try not to.

* I was wondering about the character of the Marshall. Is it a reflection of yourself, or not at all?

At the time it was something like, a perifery, or something, you know, somebody who’s on the boundaries, of like a county. That’s why I chose the marshall. Because a marshall isn’t anything really, is he. He’s sort of in the middle of, mainly, the people and the police, and he doesn’t really know where he’s going really. It’s got nothing to do with me, really! (laughs)

* ‘Cause it seemed in the past like someone like R. Totale was quite close to you.

Yeah, yeah. He’s like a tear-away. A hooligan. Secretly. But the marshall is like, more like the state of men at this present time, not particularly me, but men I meet. Men nowadays, I can’t really relate to ‘em. Ha ha ha! Or women for that! Ha ha ha ha ha! So it’s the same Fall stuff as usual really, ha ha ha. The basic hatred of the human race! Ha ha ha ha ha! (with American accent:) ‘I’m tryin’ to get inside the character, maaan!’ (laughs)

* Why can’t you relate to them?

Nah, I don’t know... It’s in the songs, really.

* People have said a lot that The Fall is a lot about, what you said, hatred, and that’s sort of a cliche, but.. isn’t it more objective than that?

I think so, yeah. Of course it is. But you can’t say that, you know, ‘cause people always think anything you say in a song is what you feel and think.

* When I was writing this article I was reminded of a book by a Dutch author called ‘I am always right’. And The Fall sort of seems to me like that, not literally, but... The attitude is always right, I think. Some people have said The Fall is the conscience of British rock music. Do you see that?

Well, yeah, I mean... I wouldn’t go too overboard about it, yeah. They are very frightened of us, it’s quite strange.

* Why, do you think?

I don’t know. It’s quite strange, like we did Reading Festival last week, and everybody likes us and that, but nobody comes near us in the dressing room, it’s like this big gap around... (laughs) Like, the group’s going to me, ‘cause they’re fairly new, they’re from... one of them used to play country and western, they’re not used to rock, you know, that’s why I picked them, really. One of them’s like sort of dance, the other guy is from, just doing tunes... But they’re really good musicians. To them it’s like a new world. They think they’re gonna be treated like Blur or something, but people just treat them like lepers! Ha ha ha ha ha! [tells them:] I think you have to get used to it! (laughs)

* Do you get along with them well?

My lot? Yeah, but... On and off, you know.

* Has it always been like that?

No, not really, the mistake I made in the past, was getting a bit too close to them. They started thinking, like a lot of people, you hang around with them and they start thinking they’re you, you know.

* What’s the new band like, if you compare it to the past, are there more possibilities?

I hope so, yeah... This time I’ve got a lot of reserves in, I’m not gonna make the same mistake in depending on certain people. And they don’t have to like, be my slaves or anything, which is what a lot of people thought, but wasn’t true... Be a bit more professional about it, really.

* I read somewhere that you heard a certain groove in the music that you’d always wanted to hear.

Yeah, yeah, that’s true. In the past I liked what it was, I liked what it was getting across, but it wasn’t like... It wasn’t like the rhythm I wanted. I mean, if I could explain it I wouldn’t have to do it, would I.

* Levitate in particular and some of the tracks on the new album were inspired by dance music a lot.


* What is it about that that inspires you, that you like?

Dance music doesn’t particularly inspire me. What I like about it is the way it’s stripped down, and doesn’t follow any rules... But then again that’s bit of [couldn’t make out this word] simmered (?) into a sort of tradition, I think. You know, everybody’s doing dance music now.

* There have become new rules as well.

Correct, yeah.

I’m thinking of going back to like, changing the timings in the song again, you know. Which I always like to do. You know, you’re always supposed to keep a song the same timing all the way through, I’m thinking of going back.. Which I think we’re getting on the Marshall Suite, you’re not letting people sort of make it all the same time all the way through, if you know what I mean. The same sort of, medium, fast and fuckin’ slow... I don’t see why you can’t use all three.

* Some of the albums did have a steady tempo all the way...

Yeah. Works sometimes.

* Can you tell me something about certain tracks off the album? Like Shake-off...

There’s three versions of that. That was the easiest version, really. We do a really good live version of that. The live version’s a lot more violent and there’s a lot more lyrics in it. But the producer they got in sort of turned it into a bit of a Michael Jackson sort of thing, so I sacked him. It’s really good, but that was supposed to be three parts, there’s like two other parts to that.

* How come they’re not there?

Well, you know, it’s like... As the LP progressed, it’s like I’m saying, press officers and that tried to get involved in it, so it’s best to keep that stuff [basic?], really, as crazy as that sounds. But wait till you hear the Shake-off live, it’s marvellous.

* I heard that you make some of the songs quite short now, when you play live.

Yeah, trying to, yeah. I think that’s good, really. ‘Cause I could do that with this group. I can say to them: this is not gonna go over three minutes. And they actually take notice of me. I think it’s very important. A lot of guitar groups and dance groups, they have no discipline, a lot of them. It’s not because of a short concentration span, I think The Fall have got to be, you know, what they’ve got to say, say it very quickly and be very disciplined about it, otherwise it’s gonna get lost. I think a lot of Fall imitators get lost, thinking it’s The Fall, so they can go on for ten minutes, you know.

* And you’ve done that already as well...

Yeah, but we did it well.

* That’s right.. I liked On My Own a lot as well.

I like that one, yeah.

* Some people thought the ‘on my own’ bit referred to the New York situation.

Oh right. They would, wouldn’t they.

* But that’s not right.


* You said something about your reputation, that people seem to be afraid of you. Do you think it’s misconstrued, or misrepresented?

I don’t know, really. It’s a good thing though. It’s not true, but... I don’t like being crowded by people a lot, I’ve always been like that. I need time to think and work. The weird thing about it is it makes people more inquisitive. People think you’re trying to do some kind of fuckin’ Greta Garbo thing, which it’s not... I’m actually a very easy-going feller, you know. So it works good for me, really. ‘Cause I’m quite soft really. (laughs)

* There have been stories about the gigs, that you were drunk at some of them...

Yeah, that’s what people like to... I think... People don’t understand you nowadays, it’s either you’re drunk or you’re on drugs. And also it’s a very good publicity thing. There’s a lot of people now, who claim they’re reformed alcoholics and reformed drug addicts, when you know damn well they’ve never had more than a fuckin’ few glasses of beer here and there. It’s like a big PR stunt. The ironical thing about that thing with me was, people are ringing me up, PR guys, going: How did you get that publicity, it’s cost me a quarter of a million pounds to get that... I just lost me temper, you know, like, with the group. But you’re not allowed to do that, really, for some reason.

* But there was no truth in that?

I like a drink, yeah. I’m not denying that. No two words about that. But it’s usually the journalists writing that who can’t even stand up while they’re interviewing me. I don’t go for ecstacy or cocaine or anything like that. Having a drink is some kind of like dirty word now, it’s a very American thing.

* It’s the same with smoking.

Yeah. Or eating cheese, or something. Ha ha ha!

* You did used to use speed, right?

Well, I think everybody does in this business, once or twice, yeah.

* Someone told me that that’s been used a lot by people who use words a lot, ‘cause it stimulates the mind..

Oh right, yeah, right, right, talking rubbish all the time... Actually, when I ever took speed it always slowed me down a bit, to be quite honest. Ha ha ha ha! That’s why I took it, it calmed me down. Can’t help it. (laughs)

* Are you in general happy with the way things are going?

No, I’m never happy with the way things are going.. I’m okay.


Subject: Mark E Smith in PROP Magazine (Issue 8)

Thanks for your enquiry regarding Issue 8 of PROP Magazine. The feature article is a diary by Ra Page, the editor of The Penguin Book of Manchester Stories, in which he describes how he managed to get a contribution from Mark E Smith.

Our publication schedule has changed this year. Issue 7 has just been published, therefore Issue 8 will be published in Feb next year.

Single issues are £3.00 each (cheques and postal orders made out to PROP) and are available from 31 Central Avenue, Farnworth, Bolton BL4 OAU.


Steven Blyth Chris Hart (Editors)


Paul Saxton:

Here's this week's NME with yet another 'comedy' take on the once mighty Fall:


Concern is growing for the long-term future of The Fall after scientists revealed that the band could become extinct within two years unless drastic measures are taken. At the last count, it was discovered that there are only 837 potential Fall members left on Earth, a situation which could ultimately wipe out the band in the very near future. It was always assumed that The Fall would carry on until Mark E. Smith died, something which may not happen for another 40 years. But with Smith currently going through band members quicker than a lorry through a cardboard wall, the world's stocks of Fall members could only last until 2001. This would mean that there may only be as many as 18 more new Fall albums left in the band before extinction. Self-confessed expert Kyle-Science Guy told us: "Only a particular type of individual can be a member of The Fall. They always have to come from the Northwest of England, and must walk with a slight stoop. This is as a result of the enormous emotional weight they must carry on their shoulders and is reflected in their permanently grimacing faces. One possible solution is cloning, but the major drawback in this plan is that chip fat and clogs, two essential parts of The Fall members, cannot be created artificially." If Mark E. Smith's current rate of band sackage were to continue, the inevitable extinction of Fall members would leave him forced to embark on a solo career, a scenario which would ultimately end in disaster. As he would have nobody to bark at, he would end up bullying himself to death within minutes. We spoke to world champion Fall fan John Peel for a response but his...

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990207 various stuff
990128 Peel Sessions CD review
990118 Uncut pieces, Marcia interview, NZ art collection
990110 NME LA2 review, modern rock sociology
990103 Manchester Ritz reviews

Old stuff: Nov 1997 - Dec 1998

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